The Peer International Exchange. My name is Justin Bell. I'm a researcher and a person in long-term recovery. So the mission of this podcast is to capture the perspectives of individuals delivering peer supports across the globe. Peer supports are people who share lived experience with the people they support, which makes them very uniquely suited to be experts on how to navigate the journey of recovery. Since this is recorded live, feel free to introduce yourself for anyone who's joining us in the chat, or you can ask questions as we continue the conversation. So I do want to set the stage for today's perspective, which is specifically in the country of Iran. So in a population of about 90.1 million, approximately 11.9% of people in Iran report lifetime use of drugs, which actually, compared to many other countries, makes it a sort of low-using population. However, opium production in the country is plentiful. Iran is reported to have the highest rates of opium addiction in the world. And simultaneously, sanctions placed on the country by the United States have put severe burdens on the country's economic condition and have limited access to harm reduction services and formal treatment. So now we see the importance of the main topic of discussion today, Congress 60. Congress 60 is a recovery community in Iran which believes there is hope for addressing addiction. Founded by Hussein Dezhakam, the organization's primary feature is the use of Dezhakam opium tincture method, whereby members, which are called travelers, are treated with a gradual reduction of an opium tincture for over 11 months alongside other methods to change their worldview and receive peer support. From its beginnings in 1998 with eight members, there are now over 20,000 individuals who hold membership cards within Congress 60's 38 branches in Iran. So our guest today is Ehsan Rajbar, a peer guide in addiction treatment and smoking cessation in Congress 60. With over 15 years of voluntary service, he supports individuals on their recovery journeys and helps translate Congress 60's materials and books. Ehsan?
And also, very uniquely, I think, holds a U.S. Recovery Code Certificate, which helps to bridge the international perspectives on peer support in this conversation. So Ehsan, to thank you, of course, for joining us today, and can you start briefly by sharing your personal journey into recovery and how you became involved with Congress 60? Thank you, Justin, and I appreciate you having me. It's an honor to be here, and it's an honor to speak with my brothers and sisters in recovery, and to spread the word that there is hope and evolve for us, and I really hope to introduce your audience to the Congress 60 method that is actually working. So I used to be a heroin addict with crystal meth combined together, and for almost ten years, and I was a hardcore addict. By going on cold turkey, it worked for almost nine months, and then I relapsed. It was very hard for me to fight every day to be just free of drugs. And then I was introduced to Congress 60. I learned about their method. Their definition of addiction was different. They were not talking about like some sort of illness, that it's irreversible, but they were telling me that it is reversible, actually. It was defined as a substitution of narcotics instead of natural opioids of the body, and we needed to fix that substitution, and it takes ten to twelve months to do so, as you mentioned, using opium tincture and tapering off opium tincture on a very precise plan, and then after that, when you reach zero point, where you are not using opium tincture or any sort of medicine, you're considered as a second traveler or a world view journey traveler, that you start, you focus on working on yourself, on your views, on the perspective and everything, and then you can become a guide and start helping others, and becoming a guide in Congress 60 is very hard, very hard.
Yeah, yeah, we'll definitely talk more about the certification process, which obviously from sort of workforce perspective that I tend to research, I'm very interested in that, but I do want to talk a little bit more just about Congress 60 in general. Obviously, I think the thing that sticks out to everybody in terms of how unique it is, is the opium tincture process that you described, so can you kind of explain more about, you know, how Congress 60 views this opium tincture, why it uses this tincture, and sort of more about how that process takes place, is sort of like the first step in recovering Congress 60? Sure, so opium tincture is our medicine, so Congress 60 believes if you are talking about an illness, which everyone does, they say addiction is an illness. This opium tincture, why it uses this tincture, and sort of more about how that process takes place is sort of like the first step in recovery in Congress 60. Sure, so opium tincture is our medicine. So Congress 60 believes if you're talking about an illness, which everyone does, they say addiction is an illness, and then you go, okay, what do I do with this illness? And they go about, quit it, stop doing it. So my question is, if you've got flu, can you stop it, or you need proper treatment for it, or cancer. So you need proper treatment. In Congress 60, the journey are two, three journeys actually. First journey is from the point that you are addicted to the point that you stop using everything, and then comes the second travel, which is to know more about yourself. It's a worldview travel, and the third travel is about knowing the Almighty God. So the process is, there is a chart for all sort of addiction within Congress 60, the guides, they have to learn it. When you want to start your travel, they ask you what do you use and how much. So heroin and meth, and then there is a proper method for it, and you should start taking this medicine based on your guide or peer orders or prescription, and it's gonna, it's going to be TDS using three times a day, and the amount is to be defined by the guide, and it's very low, like maybe one cc per dose, like three one cc's, three cc's per day. Sure. And then it goes up, and it comes down, it's a taper process, and it takes 10 to 12 months, and we believe that opium tincture is the best medicine, because it's at least 25 alkaloids, you know that, so it comes with morphine, thebaine, codeine, and most of medicine are coming from opium, in fact. So, like methadone is coming from opium. Yeah. Like tramadol is coming from opium, but there are only one alkaloid. But opium has at least 25 alkaloids, so it's a, it's a complex, complex, it's a, it's a magic complex. It helps our body to heal, to regain the balance of something that we call it the X system. We call it X because we don't know exactly what it does, but it's neurotransmitters, and endogenous hormones, and everything, and everything, that our daily activities are based on that.
Like sleeping, our sexual relationship, our eating, waking up, enjoying life, and everything, it's completely dependent on this system. So, we believe for, for an addict, this system is out of balance. Yeah. Like a city that's been bombarded for a long time, and we need to rebuild the city, rather than just taking the bombshells out of the city. Yeah. Yeah. For me, I mean, I'm definitely not a neurologist, or neuroscientist, or anything that's not my specialty in research, but I've taken some classes, and some training on neuroscience, and what it sounded like to me is just this, you know, what we would call, like in the West, sort of the reward system, right? These are the chemicals that are released when you are doing natural rewards, and unnatural rewards, but things
Like in the West, sort of the reward system, right? These are the chemicals that are released when you are doing natural rewards and unnatural rewards. But things like exercise, you know, socialization, those sort of things. And as Congress 60 seemed to describe, as you were just saying, that that's sort of out of whack, right? The way that a person who is, you know, addicted to substances, the way that they're experiencing reward is out of whack, which, you know, I've definitely heard before from people that are going through treatment they feel, especially when they get out of using substances, that they can no longer experience natural rewards. You know, they go to, like, watch TV. I mean, I even remember in my, you know, recovery trying to do things that I used to do before drug use. They just didn't feel the same, right? So I can see some of that coming to play. And then it seems like Congress 60 sort of offers this solution of, you know, here's sort of a natural way to reset some of that reward system. Yeah. And from what I understood, too, just to give some context...You can actually receive a prescription for the opium tincture, right? This is something that is legal, or at least legal by prescription, right? Opium tinctures are not banned, and there has been sort of an
approval for this medication,
correct? Yes. You have to go to clinics. There are clinics that do this. But they are cooperating with Congress on that. So the guy writes down the doses for weekly, for three weeks of receiving opium tincture, and they seal it and give it to the student, or the recovery seeker. And they go to the clinics, cooperating clinics, and then they receive the amount, all of it. And nobody is abusing it. Nobody is taking it altogether to overdose, because there are educations in Congress 60, okay? Three days a week, there are different sort of educations that the person learns that if you want to save yourself, this is the way. And if you want to start doing nonsense stuff like before, just leave and let someone else come.
This is free. This is a voluntary service. And all of us, all of the guys, all the guys in all of the country that they're working, it's voluntary. Nobody receives any sort of payment, right? So we just want to serve others, to help others, just like peers in your country. Yeah. Yeah, that's the process. Gotcha. Yeah, and I think, you know, again, I think for any Western audiences, as you've sort of said, as you described the program before, when you hear opium and you hear opium tincture, it makes people go, oh, my God, you're giving people who have maybe opioid problems and other issues an opium tincture that, like you said, has, you know, codeine and thebaine and all these alkaloids that are in, actually present in illicit substances. But yet, you know, in the West, we prescribe methadone and tangentially also we prescribe suboxone as well, which are these more synthetic opioids but certainly can have a intoxicating effect as well for folks if they decide to, you know, I guess improperly use those sort of medications. So do you see a difference between the opium tinctures and, like, methadone and suboxone? Like, how are those sort of medications viewed? As for treatment, you mean? For treatment specifically, yeah. Yeah, but as I mentioned before, opium has at least 25 alkaloids and it's a complex that can heal. This is the question. Yeah. What are we taking medicine? What are we to achieve? If you are to achieve maintenance, yes, you can take thebaine, suboxone, B2, everything. Because it helps you maintain a daily activity without taking narcotics. If you are to achieve that, yes, you can do it. But we don't want that. We don't want that. We don't want our lives to be a constant fight not to do drugs. We don't want that. We want to be done with medication over the period of 10 to 12 months. So this medication, this opium tincture should be able to reset the existence, to regain balance of that reward system that you mentioned. Yeah.
I just want to point out to the audience, I guess, that I think a lot of folks would get really afraid of this, like I said, and have sort of that stigmatizing view of, you know, how could you do this? And I know that was Mr. Dezhakam’s experience as well, that when he went to clinicians in Iran and told them he would do this, they almost wanted to slap him in the face and say no. And now it's had so much success. Well, I did want to talk more about, you know, we've talked about the pink shirt process, but obviously you said that there's other parts of this process as well. One of the most important is changing worldview as well as also like sort of a physical role. So how does Congress 60 address the other sides of the equation when it comes to addiction? How is worldview addressed and how is sort of the physical and social side of addiction addressed in Congress 60? Okay. So we have an addiction treatment triangle in Congress 60. If you are to address addiction, you must gain balance on all these three corners. One is the physics or the body that we address it with opium tincture and the process of tapering. The other one is the worldview that we address with our weekly education.
Mr. Dezhakam makes weekly talks, and then recovery seekers, they get into groups that we call them legion, and there's a guide, and they address, they study the books and material of Congress 60, and then there's psych. So we believe if you regain balance to physics or the body and the worldview, the psych will be recovered. Okay. So this is how we address it. And other activities are consisted of sports, exercises like weekly exercises that we believe it helps to regain the balance of the existence. Yeah. We have musical groups. We have rugby, football. We have archery. We have different type of activities. Yeah. We have arts and plays. Yeah. And I feel like you're sort of downplaying the sports here because actually Congress 60 has been incredibly successful. You guys aren't just playing sports. You're actually going to the national level, right, that Congress 60 has teams that are organized, especially rugby. I know you've had a lot of success. This is our way of showing the world that these methods can cure addiction. We are not the previous people. We are completely recovered, and we can even compete with what they call normal people. Yeah. Right? And rugby is a very hard sport. So it's very hard to believe that the former meth addict can play rugby. Yeah.
Rugby and archery is very famous. Yes, when I was doing my research for this conversation, I saw that the United Nations had posted about some of your rugby success, which was pretty cool to see, all the way up to the highest levels of advertising about this, so that's awesome. I do want to talk about, of course, because of the nature of this podcast, about peer support, and so I guess my first question is, and you've talked a little bit about this, but could you tell us more, what is the role of peer guides in Congress 60? A guide is a person who was an addict, and then they recover, they are in second travel, and they have to undergo lots of exams, and then there are interviews and everything to make sure that he's good for his role. So, Master Deja Come always says, a cure of addiction is a point that if you are a former heroin addict, and you are claiming that you're a cure, and... A cure of addiction is a point that if you are a former heroin addict, and you are claiming that you're cured, and they put you in a laboratory that they are making heroin, you can sleep there, work there, without any craving or anything, any desire to use. You are cool with it. It's just like it's water. You can't be there. You can't soak. They're going to check that if you reach that point, really, so that you can help others. The exams are very tough, and the volunteers are so many, like 20,000, like 10,000 people they want to apply for this position, and they're going to accept like 2,000 for all the cities of Iran. Not more than 2,000. So it's a competition. And then there are legions. Every guide has 7 to 12 pupils or recovery seekers, and has to educate them on the material that we have, and give them the proper dosage of opium tincture that they need to use, and check on them, and this is the role of what you call peer, and we call them wife. Yeah. Yeah. Is there like an emotional support element as well, or is it more just purely trying to, you know, set them up for the opium tincture? Like is there any other parts of that role? Yeah, I can tell you from my own experience, they are like your children. Okay. And you want to support them with each and every cell in your body. You love them, and they love you back for them. They can see, because the student, they can see, after three weeks of treatment with opium tincture, their color is changing, becoming normal, even their way of dressing, clothing, and everything is changed, and they're happier because, as I mentioned, opium tincture, it has different alkaloids that it can give you, it can surpass pain. Yeah. Right? So, and there is, of course, an emotional thing.
If it wasn't there, you could not help them, and they could not receive it. It's love. It's a combination of knowledge and love, and you love them to be okay, and they love you for helping them become okay. Yeah. Yeah, that's a cool process to see. I mean, I've seen it in other treatment programs I've been part of, like you said, to see the color come back into someone's skin. It's real. You get the glow, you know, back, which is cool. And I know you know this very intimately, because you, yourself, are a peer guide, of course. So, what does your sort of day-to-day role look like as a guide? Yeah, I haven't done it for the past six years. I'm doing it online. I have 136 students online. Wow. I'm just working on Worldview now. Yeah. And so, before that, I was a guide in Congress 16 for four years. Then, after that, I started, because I received my degree in psychology, then I started working in one of the clinics that was cooperating with Congress 16, and I started my legion there, and started working with patients who came into clinics. Yeah. They wanted to get methadone, and I was sitting there like, would you be interested in having to like cure, not just getting methadone? Sure. How long is it that you're getting methadone? And they say, yeah, we are okay. I'm taking methadone for five years, and I was like, five years for, what are you doing exactly? Maintaining yourself. So, then I explained to them, and then, step by step, we started doing the same thing in clinics. So, yeah, my daily activities was, I was, that time I was in website also. I was translating from morning to 2, 3, 4 p.m., and then, 4 p.m., my legion starts. I had to go downstairs to my legion, start talking, and working with my students, signing prescription, writing down opium tincture, and listen to them. The problem, someone is complaining about not being able to sleep well, so I have to adjust their medication, maybe too late. They want to sleep at 10, and the medication they are using is at 9, and it just kicks in 10, and they cannot sleep, so I had to adjust that, stuff like that. Yeah. Yeah.
That's cool. Yeah, and the other question I was going to ask is, I know uniquely, like I said, you have completed peer training in the U.S. through the CCAR organization here, and I know you said Phil Valentine was your trainer for that program, and so you've been able to experience sort of the Western perspective on peer support. So what do you see as sort of the differences between like the way the guides operate in Congress 60 versus how here in the West we view peer support? Yeah, so there are lots of differences, but let me tell you that in Western countries, there is a division. One group believes in recovery, no medication. The other group just believes in medication. Congress, they combine these two. Yeah. One is with medication support. Second, second travel is no medication, or what you call is the recovery. Yeah. So we believe first we need to address this ex-system problem or the reward system, as you mentioned, so the person can live a normal life, not to fight every day, and the reinforcement is in their body to help them. Okay. Yeah, but in peer recovery, like recovery coach, as you mentioned, Phil Valentine's program recovery coach that Mr. White introduced me to them, and it was an honor to participate in his classes, it's about like helping the people who seek recovery in any way. Like if they need shelter, you need to be able to offer them something, not your own place, but you need to be in contact with some shelter so that you can offer them. If they need like everything and everything, but we have rules in Congress 60. A guide cannot offer shelter, money, or anything. A guide cannot give them fish, but to teach them how to fish. Yeah. I think it's difference between peer support in Western countries and Congress 60. So if, for example, if a pupil, if a student comes to me and says, hey, I want to go do some math, I would say, go and enjoy it. But if you do that, your peer support, that's forbidden. You have to beg them even not to go.
22:26
Keep it together. You'll get there. Hang in there. I'm here. I was like you and I'm trying to convince them. We don't convince people. Yeah. We don't throw red carpet for anyone. Yeah. We help with love. We can provide help to those who are seeking good. We're calling it recovery seekers. But this person is not a recovery seeker. They want to use. They can go and use. The proper method is here. We can help you. This is the biggest difference. But your program is a bit different than that. Yeah. Yeah. And I think it depends too on kind of different philosophies. I mean, we don't have it all figured out here either. There's a lot of definitions of peer support going around. And there's some folks, I think, who would agree with you, like peers in the West that would say, I have the same approach. I also believe that I'm purely here to support them when they want support and to back away when they don't. But then I think there's a lot of peers, like you said, especially if you look at other mutual aid programs, which was going to set up my next question about 12-step groups. There is that sort of, if somebody, you know, if you call your sponsor and you say that you want to use, they, like you said, are going to sort of, you know, a lot of people at least are going to have that approach of I'm going to stop you through this conversation from using. That is going to be my method is I'm going to do whatever I can in my humanly power to get you to go away from substance use. And I'm sure a lot of listeners in the CISI Western context, they probably haven't heard of any other groups other than 12-step groups. That's the only name in town sometimes in a lot of communities, especially in the U.S. And I also know, and I was surprised by this when I was doing my research, Iran actually has the second most narcotics anonymous meetings in the world, second to the United States. So I know there's a big 12-step presence. And so my question for you, which I know we've talked about a little bit before, how do Congress 60 or don't they and 12-step groups interact? How do they see each other? How do these two recovery communities kind of coexist in Iran? So it's two different recovery groups, as you mentioned, and they believe in sudden withdrawal and then focusing on recovery. And we don't believe in that. Sure. And we have our own building. Everything is bought in Congress 60. We don't use it, governmental, anything, because we are completely independent. Yeah. That's a big difference. And 20% of our, roughly 20% of our newcomers are from N.A., and they have been sober for between 15 to 20 years. Wow.
Contacts, they probably haven't heard of any other groups other than 12-step groups. That's the only name in town sometimes in a lot of communities, especially in the U.S. And I also know, and I was surprised by this when I was doing my research, Iran actually has the second most narcotics anonymous meetings in the world, second to the United States. So I know there's a big 12-step presence. And so my question for you, which I know we've talked about a little bit before, how do Congress 60, or Bill Bid, and 12-step groups interact? How do they see each other? How do these two recovery communities kind of coexist in Iran? So it's two different recovery groups, as you mentioned. N.A., they believe in sudden withdrawal and then focusing on recovery, and we don't believe in that. Sure. And we have our own building. Everything is bought in Congress 60. We don't use any governmental anything. We are completely independent. Yeah. That's a big difference. And roughly 20% of our newcomers are from N.A., and they have been sober for between 15 to 20 years. Then they come to Congress 60 and start the process. I had a student with 17 years of sobriety when he came, and he was like, I was not feeling well for the whole 17 years. Two weeks later, I'm feeling a lot better. And now he's a complete himself. Yeah. Okay? Yeah. So, but we are not going to face each other and contradict each other. At least we will not do that to them. Yeah. We respect anyone who fights it. And I personally believe that those who go under N.A. ways of sudden withdrawal, they're stronger than me because they don't have medication support. They go face-to-face with the monster. Sure. So it's hard, and they have to fight every day besides their daily activities just to keep themselves from getting there and doing that, right? They have to change everything.
They have to change their life style, they have to change their friends. We don't have that in Converse 60. Yeah. You can have your life, you can go to work, you can have your friends, everything is okay. You are taking the medication, you are coming to the education class, and we teach you how to use the medicine, and you will see that medicine survives. You don't need to do anything extra. And step by step, if you listen to your guide, you will see that you are recovering. The egg system is regaining balance, and you feel that happiness that you just mentioned. I'm going to the movies, but I don't enjoy it anymore. Right. The worst is back. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I think that's what I see. I really liked what you said before, where you said Converse 60 is a blending of two different trains of thought about addiction. You are right. Here in the U.S., as far as in the context that I know, and I think in other places too in the West, there is that thought of medication and recovery are two different pathways. Obviously, there's a lot of folks who think that both pathways should exist, me included. But yeah, a lot of people think that they shouldn't interact, and 12-step programs are having a lot of trouble with that at the moment. The research establishment, the progressives and harm reduction groups are targeting them, saying you need to accept medication. They're throwing it back and saying, no, we don't, and sometimes even being stigmatizing about medications, not letting people join on medications or not letting people share at meetings sometimes if they're on medications, which leaves a lot of people alienated. That's what I see as sort of the promise of Converse 60, or a model like Converse 60, is you guys sort of have figured out how to integrate these two things into something that's one and maybe stronger than either on its own, which is very cool to hear about.
We just have to figure out sort of the legality of some of these things, which is, I'm sure, going to be a road to go down. So, I wanted to talk to you in the last few questions that I had before we turn it over to either audience questions or just any, like, wrap-up things that you want to say or other questions that come to mind. So, Congress 60 has grown significantly, exponentially. So, since its founding in 1998, so what do you see the organization heading in the next 5 to 10 years or so? So, for now, MasterDigital.com is more focused on writing papers, and we are doing experiments on molecule level. We're talking about gene expression. So, these are, whatever I'm claiming is just talk. We need to prove it. We know ourselves, okay? I'm in a swimming pool. I know the water is good, but you're not there. So, I have to prove it to you because I want to help the others, right? So, how do we do that? It's by writing scientific articles, and we have to do it to gene expression. Not using questionnaires, like self-reported questionnaires. It should be tested, and it should show the data should talk for itself, and we are doing that for the past, like, 2 years, and it's getting more and more. Now, we're working on fentanyl because we know that it's a problem, widespread problem in the Western countries, so we're working on that, and we have a vast ocean of data. We have the vast, because you know, there's 20,000 members, and any researcher, we encourage them. Anyone who wants to work and see the truth of it, they can come to us. We will give them everything they need to do research on this, like, sea of people that you can do your research on. For now, we are doing a comparison article with the help of Chestnut Healthcare System and William White, comparing the N.A. and other recovery advocates in the U.S., and Congress succeed to show the world how our methods are working and if it's a success or not, and it's coming with gene expression and everything. Wow. And I guess a question that I have based on that, I assume that you're collaborating with, like, universities and researchers in Iran. How does sort of the research establishment or the academic establishment in Iran see Congress 60? Like, what are the perspectives, I guess, that your average researcher would have on Congress 60 in Iran? So.
Congress 60 is an academy itself, so its main title is Human Revivification Society of Congress 60. We believe in revivification, or reviving human beings. And we are building our own university in one of the islands of Iran, and all the capital is coming from members. So, why they are donating money? Because they found their life. They are better. They can work. Take me, for example. After recovery, I was able to get my degree in psychology, my master's in business, and I'm working with American companies, and I'm growing. How am I able to do that? Because I'm fully recovered. I'm feeling well. Actually, I'm feeling more than well. And we are collaborating for the data processing. We have our own laboratory. We have our own mice to experiment on. And we are collaborating, as far as I know, with Cambridge University. They are helping with the data, sort of processing the data and stuff like that. We are working with them, and of course, Mr. William White. Absolutely. And going back to the self-supporting nature and the donation, I think one of the most interesting things I was reading in some of your literature was the donation policy in Congress 60, that you can't just donate money. You have to have an interview with Mr. Dezacom where he needs to check. Like, do you have your own affairs in order? Do you have an apartment for your family? Which I think is a pretty cool policy. It shows how you're not just worried. This isn't just an operation to get money. It's, okay, once you've achieved success for yourself, then, and only then, can you actually start to donate to the organization, which I thought was a cool policy. I guess the last couple of questions.
I mean, I guess this would be sort of my final question before we jump into, I already see that there's an audience question that sounds like a good one to address, but, you know, Congress 60 has had a lot of success. It's had a lot of success in, I think, a region that at least from a naive Western perspective would think that, you know, this sort of thing wasn't possible or they couldn't conceive of. You know, here in the West, we tend to think that we have all the answers, so to hear from an organization outside of the West having such a huge success, it breaks that sort of view. So what advice would you give to other groups that were trying to build strong, you know, peer-led sort of programs? What do you think are the lessons that anyone should take from Congress 60? First, we're talking about stigmas. We're saying that people are looking at us differently in this society, but we have stigmas for each other. Yeah. Like, mention, who would believe that Congress 60 can do it? Mm-hmm. Out with NIDA, they don't believe it. Right. This is problematic. Yeah. You need to be able to see the research, because numbers, they don't lie, right? If the gene expression is showing you that it is working, the genes are altered, oh my God, this is finding of the century. Sure. Opium tincture with DSC method can alter the gene expression. We are recording this. We are claiming this. We are proving this with the articles. So, it's absurd that no one wants to look at it, because they believe we're a third-world country? Yeah. What about the country? It's about our own community. We are the people who were gifted. Don't look at your past. Mm-hmm. We did stuff, but the instrument of our damnation became our salvation. We are even better. Don't be scared. And we can do things that so-called normal people, they cannot do. Yeah. We have experiences. We were born from the fire. Yeah. We went into the hell and came out. So we are different, we are better in different aspects.
The only problem is the other groups that are focusing on recovery. It's a constant. When you can use a proper method that is created by someone like you, someone who suffered the same problems as we, and we are ready to share it with the world. We don't want anything in return. We just want to help. So why not use it? That's my question to you. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I agree. I think that there's a lot of bias that comes from, you know, and I've seen this in many, many different ways that, you know, anybody other than, you know, a member of the EU or the United States can create research. And I mean, that was sort of the goal of my podcast was, and I even realized I had the bias when other peers started coming to me and saying, you know, I'm from outside of the U.S. and I do peer support this way, or we have policies like this. We've solved problems like this. And I was like, wow, I've never even thought of these things. And I know most researchers here in the U.S. don't think about these things, or peer supports themselves. So, yeah, I hope going forward that that sort of bias is able to be broken. As, like you said, more research comes out about Congress 60, and there continues to be these collaborations between organizations in the U.S. and other places, and Congress 60 there in Iran. I did want to open up, since we have about 15 minutes or so remaining, for any audience members to ask questions if they'd like. You can put them in the chat. I do see we have one already. Or if you felt like coming off of mic, you know, or coming onto mic, coming off of mute and asking the questions, you can do that as well. But I saw Karen, a member here, posted a question in the chat. Could you say something about the overlap between addictions and other forms of mental health issues in Iran? Do they overlap?
...that are focusing on recovery. It's a constant daily fight. Don't do that, brothers. When you can use a proper method that is created by someone like you, someone who suffered the same problems, and we, and we are ready to share it with the world. We don't want anything in return. We just want to help. So why not use it? That's my question to you. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I agree. I think that there's a lot of bias that comes from, you know, and I've seen this in many, many different ways that, you know, anybody other than, you know, a member of the EU or the United States can create research. And I mean, that was, that was sort of the goal of my podcast was, and I even realized I had the bias when other peers started coming to me and saying, you know, I'm from outside of the U.S. and I do peer support this way, or we have policies like this. We've solved problems like this. And it was, I was like, wow, I've never even thought of these things. And I know most researchers here in the U.S. don't think about these things or peer supports themselves. So, yeah, I hope going forward that that sort of bias is able to be broken. As, like you said, more research comes out about Congress 60, and there continues to be these collaborations between organizations in the U.S. and other places, and Congress 60 there in Iran. I do want to open up, since we have about 15 minutes or so remaining, for any audience members to ask questions if they'd like. You can put them in the chat. I do see we have one already. Or if you felt like coming off of mic, you know, or coming on to mic, coming off of mute and asking the questions, you can do that as well. But I saw Karen, a member here, posted a question in the chat. Could you say something about the overlap between addictions and other forms of mental health issues in Iran? Do they overlap? And is there support related to mental health specifically and separately in Iran?
...diagnosed with mental problems, right? And it's because of addiction mostly, because the person who is using has two personas. One when they use, one when they're not using. So one is when they're feeling really good, the other is when they're feeling very bad. And both of these come with decisions that is driving their lives, and that's the basis of this diagnosis. Take that apart. In Congress 16, we believe all, if not all, but most, mental illnesses and incurable diseases like cancer, there are articles about these that I'm ready to share with all of you, is rooted in the egg system. If we somehow regain balance to the egg system, we can even cure cancer. I'm telling you this, and I have seen people that are cured for cancer just by gaining balance to their egg system, and we are doing research on that, and we have articles. ...in that effort. Are there any other questions from members? I just wanted to briefly give a chance to anyone who's joining us if they did have anything else to say. Members, I just wanted to briefly give a chance to anyone who's joining us if they did have anything else that they wanted to ask, but I don't think we had other questions at the moment. Sam, was there anything that we didn't get to talk about today, things that you want the international community, especially your peers who might be listening, to know that we didn't get a chance to discuss? Thank you.
Transcribe audioTo tell you that I love you all. You are all my brothers and sisters, and we have all undergone the same path. And we know what decision we made, and how it turned out. Something that we wanted to be heaven turned out to be the hell. And then we got stuck there. We don't have any defects. We don't have any problems with our personality. We are not weak, okay? But today, science, they believe that. They claim that. That we are pleasure seekers. We are not pleasure seekers. Maybe at the beginning, and even then, it was not pleasure seeking. It was, you know, drugs that do something for you. Like when you want to study, you can't study well, you take something, and then you study a lot better. It starts like that. For some driver, they don't want to sleep, and they take drugs, and then they become addicted. It's not pleasure seeking. It's about the way that these dark forces work. I don't know if you believe in that or not, but it exists. And it knows very well how to trap us. So, and then it becomes addiction. We are not weak. We are trapped. If we have a method, like DSD method, that can break that trap for us, and help us in our recovery road, we should take it. We should definitely take it. We should exchange ideas. We are a community, and we are strong.
And if someone wants to know more about Congress 60, where should they go to find out more information? They can reach out to me. I'm a direct pupil of MasterDejaCom, and I can help them. I had pupils from Denmark and Germany, and one of them completed the DSC method using methadone, but they didn't have access. Another one was able to find illegal opium in their country and do it, and they're both fine. Even the southern guy is fine. So they can reach out to me, I can point them to the direction, or anything, I can do anything. I'm ready for it. We have also a program for smoking cessation. Again, with the tapering, but this time instead of opium tincture, it's nicotine gum. But the method is the same. Gotcha. So, yeah, that's another thing to point out. Cool. Awesome. And you have an English website as well for anybody listening, too? Yeah. Okay, great. I have an English website as well. Yeah, awesome. Well, thank you all for joining us today. Again, I've been listening to my guest, your guide from Congress 60, talking about his experience in the program and the philosophies of Congress 60 as it exists in Iran. So thank you once again for joining us and talking with us today. Thank you all for joining us, and have a wonderful day.
The audio file of this conversation is available in the following website:
https://share.transistor.fm/s/59a12d98